April: that's one thing I want to do in my switch: clean up my computer use and stop having such a mess

aaron: It's not the same, but very few actually default to tiling. That's only for folks who live in the history museum like me. ;)

April: IIRC, netbsd (or all the bsds?) separates the base system from the added on packages

April: that's pretty neat

April: makes it easy to clean up

April: wait tiling is an old thing?

<b>April:</b> I saw it and thought it was way better than the usual mess of windows

aaron: Most of them generally do that. (OSX package managers picked up the same habit.)

April: on osx it's a fucking mess

<b>aaron:</b> Yea, it's an ancient thing.

April: .apps in an applications folder, random installed binary packages who went god knows where, then there's brew and macports if you ahve that, then the basic mac stuff.

April: and then all your misc. stuff you don't have in any of those just lying about

April: I gave up trying to keep tabs on what's installed on my mac

April: kinda like windows: just all over the place

<b>aaron:</b> Well, there's programs on Linux/BSD that abuse it too. But /usr/local and /opt for foreign binaries, same as on OSX.

April: hmm

<b>aaron:</b> On OSX, /Applications and ~/Applications are just the user facing version of /usr/local and ~/bin.

April: ah

April: that's another thing I liked when I was setting up netbsd. Learned a lot and it felt like I actually knew what everything did more or less

April: on my mac it's a mystery a lot of the time. either due to how much stuff there is, or simply just not knowing how everything is laid out

<b>aaron:</b> ~/bin isn't special at all, you can slap any name in your path, but ~/Applications is easily recognizable in English, and uses more than 3 letters.

April: I've always hated not knowing what the OS was doing. Which is why smaller stuff like arch always appealed to me

April: just knowing everything that goes into it

aaron: It's mostly the not knowing bit. OSX is a really thin wrapper over unix traditions in most places. If you go back later, you'll understand most of it now. ;)

April: I think another big part is that I've just made a huge mess on my mac lol

aaron: I've done that to every OS. Just get a scorecard. :D

April: lol

April: I showed someone a screencap of my desktop filled with images, and they gasped in shock

April: since I use the screencap feature a lot, and the default location is the desktop

April: and I was too lazy to fix it

aaron: (There's a sysctl to change it, if you're a BSD fan.)

April: ended up getting a quick line in the terminal to fix it

<b>aaron:</b> ^ that one.

April: now it goes into like ~/Pictures/screenshots or osmething

<b>aaron:</b> It's just BSD sysctls.

April: found that out and thought it was great

April: with my move from windows to mac I did a lot of cleanup stuff as well. Like actually sticking my music in the /music folder

<b>aaron:</b> There's a lot of sysctls available on OSX if you want to poke around. Less than FreeBSD, but some fun things.

April: huh

April: oh quick question. I was wondering if there'd be a way to (once I switch) keep my setup to be easily redeployable on whatever machine

April: I know nix kinda had something like that where you just provide the config file and it auto downloads/installs whatever you specified

<b>aaron:</b> "What is ansible?"

April: and there's dotfiles for config stuff you can store and have backed up

aaron: There's also a bunch of dotfile managers for personal/account settings. (Same deal as on OSX.)

April: a quick search looks like a more professional tool

April: like for a bunch of machines or something

April: I just meant like so if I got a new computer, or wanted to just wipe my machine for some reason

<b>aaron:</b> Kinda. It's meant for that, but the folks in #openbsd use it all the time for personal boxes.

April: I know if my mac crashed or something, I'd have no idea how to get it back up with all the stuff I have on it

April: just try to remember everything I had lol

April: ah

April: having a minimal setup sounds really nice tbh

April: everything all clean and organized. You know how the whole machine works. Sounds like a dream

So I have a question... I'm trying to mount a jbod connected with USB. The disks are ntfs drives. Ubuntu and centos both had minimum config issues. I used ntfs-3g to mount them. Freebsd side it has ntfs-3g in the ports catalog and installed. Anything special that needs to be added into fstab to mount them?

<b>aaron:</b> W3b Fly (Telegram): I don't believe with fuse. Even on Linux, they should mount straight.

<b>aaron:</b> April: If you have the time/energy, you should do a Gentoo install into a VM, following the handbook. That'll give you a pretty good idea of how unixes work down below.

aaron: April: (And the recovery process for OSX is actually exactly the same as on other unixes. ;) )

<b>aaron:</b> But having the minimal setup is really nice for keeping track of everything, and knowing how the plumbing works. Comes at a cost though.

April: yeah, definitely takes a bit of reading into and practicing

April: gotta trim the fat in general though

April: how I currently do things just feels bloated

April: checked my drive and I had like 3gb free. I have no idea where the other 97+ went

<b>aaron:</b> User data.

<b>aaron:</b> Music is music, no matter the OS underneath. BSD doesn't make movies smaller.

April: xcode, android stuff, random bloated gui apps

April: music only is taking up like 10gb

April: I don't have any movies

<b>aaron:</b> Xcode is only a few gigs. You can install the compiler separately around 400 MB, but the full install comes with a lot of assets.

April: xcode says it takes up 10gb

<b>aaron:</b> It's grown a bit since when I installed it then. Used to only be 6GB.

April: android is like 2gb per device emulator, another couple gb just for the dev environment/tools

April: i'll have to pull up the thing and see what it says

<b>aaron:</b> All of that comes right back when you install it on Linux/BSD though.

April: right

April: but how much shit actually relies on xcode? I never open the damn thing

<b>aaron:</b> Grandperspective should still be around, if I remembered the name right. Great for showing disc usage.

<b>aaron:</b> Nothing in userland relies on Xcode or the toolchain, and it's an optional install. You can run the uninstaller freely.

<b>aaron:</b> You can grab the standalone toolchain package to run brew.

April: ?

April: I feel like every week I get something that requires the xcode commandline tools

April: can't remember what though

<b>aaron:</b> Yea. That package is only the 400MB though.

<b>aaron:</b> They broke it out when they stopped shipping Xcode on the install CD.

April: yeah, xcode.app - 5.73 GB

April: the 'manage' button when showing disk space has a section for apps and it shows 9.9 for xcode

April: i'm gonna delete it and see if anything breaks lol

jrmu (IRC): has anyone been able to get an open source driver for athn ar9271?

jrmu (IRC): sorry, forgot to add, on OpenBSD 6.1

jrmu (IRC): I bought this wifi card because the a debian user recommended it, he said it was one of the few wifi cards with open firmware. But the OpenBSD driver for athn ar9271 definitely is not open, it seems

jrmu (IRC): debian does have open firmware but OpenBSD doesn't

<b>aaron:</b> April: Well, as I said, you'll need to reinstall the command line tools package, but beyond that, no.

April: hmm

aaron: (They kept a hard separation between the toolchain and the GUI package.)

April: that's nice at least

<b>aaron:</b> Apple is very good with that.

April: but I mean, it's just that kind of pointlessness all over my computer. I think I have two different versions of java installed

<b>aaron:</b> April: What's your use case for your desktop? I've found the one thing that tears apart all my nice setups is moving from hosting a dev environment to hosting a browser.

<b>aaron:</b> Welcome to Java. Same deal on every OS.

April: mostly just personal use (web, music, games, etc) and some dev work. Mostly web and python, but also some c/c++ here and there