@lattera not now :)

Jaypatelani: Welcome April

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/07/microsoft-rationalizes-and-rebrands-windows-10-office-updates-again/

Windows slowly following unix release cycle lol

-current built seems taken from BSD though ??

[RSS Bot [@Jaypatelani:matrix.org]] Berkeley Software Distribution posted a new article: [DEF CON] A survey of BSD kernel vulnerabilities ( https://www.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/6pypvw/def_con_a_survey_of_bsd_kernel_vulnerabilities/ )

April: Jaypatelani: hello :)

Jaypatelani: Hello :)

April: tbh, I'm not quite sure what I'm doing here

April: trying to figure out which OS to move to, and bsd caught my eye

Jaypatelani: Hehe.. Anyone interested in BSD OS can lurk here

April: I asked some gnu/linux guys and they just kinda hated on bsd for a bit without really giving any reasons why I should choose one or the other. Wasn't very helpful

Jaypatelani: Which BSD OS you are looking into?

April: I thought people into bsd could help

April: I don't know lol. I was looking at all of them

April: I ended up downloading the netbsd iso and installed it on a vm

April: and tbh, it just feels kinda the same as the experience I had on a few different gnu/linux distros

April: so I'm not really sure what to do lol

Jaypatelani: If can look at TrueOS and GhostBSD for start FreeBSD based with GUI installer and goodies but OpenBSD works well too

Jaypatelani: Try them in VM and see which fits your requirement

April: I mean, I set up xfce and that worked fine

April: one big reason I want to switch OS is because mac really locks stuff down in that department. So it's hard to customize things

Jaypatelani: In VM yes but on real Hardware it might take some tweaking to do

April: ah

<b>Jaypatelani:</b> Also good read about OpenBSD https://home.nuug.no/~peter/openbsd_and_you/#1

April: at this point I'm not really sure what the pros/cons of picking even between linux distros, or gnu/linux vs bsd, or between bsd distros

April: :\

Jaypatelani: :)

April: so why openbsd instead of freebsd or netbsd?

April: and for that matter, why bsd over gnu/linux

Jaypatelani: Newbie from Linux - have a Lenovo Ideapad - best BSD? https://www.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/6fl2l7/newbie_from_linux_have_a_lenovo_ideapad_best_bsd/

Want to learn BSD. Have a 2013 Thinkpad X230. Which is the most laptop friendly BSD to learn with? https://www.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/6irela/want_to_learn_bsd_have_a_2013_thinkpad_x230_which/

Jaypatelani: For why OpenBSD I posted link above. But others have different qualities so it basically comes down to your work and requirements

Jaypatelani: FreeBSD have zfs and jails etc

Jaypatelani: NetBSD has portability. Etc.

Jaypatelani: Dragonflybsd has hammer fs

<b>Jaypatelani:</b> @April:matrix.org: this one is old for BSD vs Linux https://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01

Jaypatelani: But now most of days BSD vs systemD ??

April: I saw that link already, the bsd4linux one

April: it didn't help much

Jaypatelani: :P

April: I mean, all the stuff provided sounds like tiny details and really technical stuff

April: rather than just a general "this is why you should use it"

Jaypatelani: Play around with BSDs on bare metal if you can so you will know.

April: I'll have to do that

April: should work on the original raspberry pi right? Or is that no good

April: might have to pull out my desktop

Jaypatelani: desktop is better ?

April: the problem is it has no internet

April: :\

<b>Jaypatelani:</b> "Great documentation is a top priority. The built-in man pages are amazing. So if you're stuck on anything, searching the man pages on your own computer is going to give you a better answer than searching Google. (This makes it nicer to work offline, too.)" https://sivers.org/openbsd

<b>aaron:</b> April: From the user perspective, at a high level, there isn't any huge difference between the different Linuxes/BSDs.

<b>aaron:</b> April: Kinda a choice between which wallpaper and cursor pack you like the best.

<b>April:</b> > > which wallpaper and cursor pack > Okay I'm not that n00b >

April: biggest difference I saw tbh was package managers and the fact that netbsd didn't even come with sudo

<b>aaron:</b> "Whichever package manager and wallpaper you like the best". ;)

April: lol

<b>aaron:</b> All of the BSDs come with sudo in ports/packages. Licensing issue. It's just a click/typing away to install though.

<b>aaron:</b> Also, OSX probably isn't as locked down as you think.

April: Yeah I got sudo installed pretty quick

April: and yeah, I've worked around a lot of the osx stuff. But I still have issues with it. Maybe I'm just missing something

<b>aaron:</b> On the Linux side, you've got the eternal fight between rpm and deb package managers. Every distro has their own init system and supporting scripts, if that's your thing. If everything is running right though, you shouldn't notice a difference between them at the user level.

April: that's a pic of my mac

April: hmm

April: perhaps I'll keep pushing on with netbsd then. Or maybe switch to freebsd

<b>aaron:</b> All the BSDs are perfectly fine general purpose OSes, but they all have a historical niche they fell in to that they're still known for today.

April: that's actually what attracted me to them in the first place

April: I like the history

April: feels a bit more 'pure' somehow

<b>aaron:</b> NetBSD was the super portable one, can easily be brought up on any new hardware. OpenBSD was the secure one, the team spends a lot of time whacking bugs in "old and boring" areas. FreeBSD was the server one that invented the networking stack (also, they grabbed ZFS from openSolaris.)

aaron: OSX was the one that grafted a FreeBSD upper kernel onto their microkernel, then started replacing user land with NetBSD and OpenBSD packages. (And is a lot less locked down and more configurable than they like letting people know.)

April: wait how configurable is mac os anyway?

April: I have brew installed and set up a WM, but it's all running on top of the usual mac stuff

aaron: Big downsides of the BSDs are no Broadcom wireless support, they're lagging behind in graphics support, and the Bluetooth stack isn't great. (No Bluetooth support on OpenBSD.)

April: but yeah, the portability is what caught my eye for netbsd

April: there was also a page on the site (albeit it's prolly for the other bsds as well) about linux emulation and other similar stuff allowing it to run compiled shit?

April: not sure what that was about but it sounded pretty badass

<b>aaron:</b> OSX is very configurable, and they're sneaky enough to include man pages for all the administrative software they added (like diskutil.)

April: https://www.netbsd.org/about/interop.html

<b>aaron:</b> NetBSD and FreeBSD have Linux emulation. If you've played with wine (windows syscall -> Linux syscall translator), it's like that. Does a pretty good job on FreeBSD.

April: https://www.netbsd.org/docs/compat.html

April: yeah I'm well familiar with wine

<b>aaron:</b> Same concept, but both sides are open source, so it's "easier".

April: but yeah I read over the netbsd pages and saw: 'run on anything' and 'run anything' and thought it'd be kinda neat to have a super OS of sorts lol

April: which is why I ended up installing it

April: the minimalism I was met with also was a pleasant surprise

April: I'll have to dig around in my mac some more though

<b>aaron:</b> The downside is there's no large company invested in bringing graphics driver support to NetBSD, or the newest wireless driver and stacks, so that can lag behind a bit. Nothing huge, but can be annoying depending on your exact needs.

<b>aaron:</b> I used to run OSX, so I can give you pointers in that area. The lack of alt+dragging to move windows was what eventually caused me to move away though.

April: oh I don't even drag windows around anymore

April: it's all tiled

April: I set it up like that because I wanted to do things to help make it a bit easier to switch to either bsd or gnu/linux

April: trying to get into vi and vim too. Actually used it quite a bit on netbsd

aaron: (Contrary to popular belief, all of the big window managers and desktop environments on Linux/BSD are quite normal.)

aaron: (I spent my whole time on OSX using vim though, just because I already knew it. I hate vi.)

April: nah, it's just not the same as mac

April: there's a lot of things missing