Chungy
NTFS is, nearly by definition, the native Windows NT file system (and that should extend to ReactOS too). It has features that are quite unique to the operating system itself, namespacing, object IDs, native NT ACLs, alternate data streams, several timestamp types, per-file compression and per-file encryption. Just to name a few.
It'd be ludicrous for ReactOS not to implement it eventually. And probably totally reasonable to one day become the default too.
Anonymous
NTFS is, nearly by definition, the native Windows NT file system (and that should extend to ReactOS too). It has features that are quite unique to the operating system itself, namespacing, object IDs, native NT ACLs, alternate data streams, several timestamp types, per-file compression and per-file encryption. Just to name a few.
It'd be ludicrous for ReactOS not to implement it eventually. And probably totally reasonable to one day become the default too.
They'll probably implement it, but I'm pretty sure Microsoft will come up with a newer revision of NTFS, because partitions created on older versions of Windows, pre NT 4.0, aren't working the best with Windows 10 for example
Chungy
the on-disk format hasn't changed since Windows 2000.
Chungy
and who cares, really
Chungy
All the alternatives you've given are Unix file systems. The operating system models are totally different and the file systems reflect the OS they are developed for.
Anonymous
the on-disk format hasn't changed since Windows 2000.
That's an issue, the file system is starting to be the bottleneck if you see PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs, some other file systems perform better
Anonymous
All the alternatives you've given are Unix file systems. The operating system models are totally different and the file systems reflect the OS they are developed for.
Windows doesn't support Linux's extended file system, Apple's HFS+ journaled file system, and not support F2FS
Chungy
None of that matters.
Anonymous
Windows 10 installs mainly on NTFS, but not FAT32, I think I've seen someone installing it on exFAT though
Chungy
ReactOS absolutely needs a file system that supports at least the same features as NTFS. NTFS itself is a natural fit.
btrfs can get mostly there (Windows ACLs are implemented as spceial xattrs. OK, that's probably fine), missing object sets and namespaces though.
Eris
oh my god not again
Eris
we had this ntfs bs a while ago
Chungy
yeah, and I'm bored enough to get some entertainment out of it
Chungy
we all know lothaire is irrational
Julen
I get more speed in the ROS in Btrfs than in Fat
Julen
3 or 4 times faster in everything
Stas'M
Someday we'll be able to switch to fastfat_new (by MS), it should probably be faster and more stable
Eris
why
Jose
Not as powerful and secure as NTFS, but it is an old days filesytem and it works.
Jose
BTRFS implementation under ReactOS is also working very well now.
Jose
Thanks to the team for the effort.
Anonymous
we all know lothaire is irrational
I may be, for sure
But does that mean I'm a idiot asap ?
Probably not
Eris
"but does that mean i'm a idiot (a)s (s)oon (a)s (p)ossible"
Eris
you are an idiot
Julen
I'm trying to use the PC to write a little Script. Like a typewriter. No LAN, no other things, no fireworks. Only write.
Jose
🙄
✝️ ☺️🌞 HD Scania
Stas'M
You just have 317GiB hard drives, then insufficient to get few more systems installed
And you don’t have UEFI at all? ROS isn’t yet ready for amd64 and UEFI
No I don't have UEFI, only good old Phoenix BIOS
Tobiyo
welp i was wondering why windows doesn't have a journaling filesystem
Anonymous
welp i was wondering why windows doesn't have a journaling filesystem
It's one of the only operating system family to never have used a journaled filesystem before
Linux and BSD can utilize some, even Hurd if I remember correctly
Apple is using one by default for decades on MacOS !
Tobiyo
linux is using one by default aswell iiuc makes me ponder what features the windows family uses that is specific to ntfs
Anonymous
linux is using one by default aswell iiuc makes me ponder what features the windows family uses that is specific to ntfs
Hence why NTFS is getting obsolete and shit
The same crap since Windows 2000, that's over, we don't have to suffer from it anymore, it has obvious file size limits, and obvious performance limits, also it taxes hard drives like crazy, and wears SSDs like no other modern fs does
Stas'M
linux is using one by default aswell iiuc makes me ponder what features the windows family uses that is specific to ntfs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS
Stas'M
Stas'M
welp i was wondering why windows doesn't have a journaling filesystem
Stop spreading misinformation
Tobiyo
it is journaling? did not know that o.O
Anonymous
Stop spreading misinformation
Well, the journalization isn't as good as most other FS
It has one, but it's kinda limited
Stas'M
it is journaling? did not know that o.O
If it wasn't, you'd have big problems on Windows with non-clean shutdown
Anonymous
If it wasn't, you'd have big problems on Windows with non-clean shutdown
A lot of people already experience these problems on Windows with non-clean shutdown
Tobiyo
don't we? aren't non-clean shutdown is considered a problem on windows?
Anonymous
don't we? aren't non-clean shutdown is considered a problem on windows?
Well, yeah, they aren't recommended to do, only when it hangs for no reason
Tobiyo
even windows give you a black screen saying "windows didn't shutdown correctly"
Stas'M
even windows give you a black screen saying "windows didn't shutdown correctly"
This is a warning message, not an obstacle
Stas'M
It doesn't prevent boot
Tobiyo
one that is supposed to scare a user isn't it? why issue a warning if its not actually a problem?
Stas'M
one that is supposed to scare a user isn't it? why issue a warning if its not actually a problem?
Are you just chatting now for the sake of chatting? I'm not a MS engineer
Stas'M
I'm gonna begin using mute feature if you guys continue this topic
Anonymous
It doesn't prevent boot
It can prevent boot though lmao
Especially if you were in the process of a system update or something
Tobiyo
no? i geniunely thought windows had large problems with non clean shutdowns
Anonymous
Are you just chatting now for the sake of chatting? I'm not a MS engineer
Well, you're an ROS engineer though ;)
Eris
thats not even the same thing
Tobiyo
What's not the same thing?
Tobiyo
i'm honestly still confused
Alexander
This is not a "omg windows is crappy, ros will get better and we write our trash down" Community 🤔
Tobiyo
sure, i was simply curious and appearently misinformed about NTFS
Anonymous
This is not a "omg windows is crappy, ros will get better and we write our trash down" Community 🤔
Well, the former part of that comment is true though
Yes Windows is getting crappier, ReactOS is getting better
But we aren't writing our trash down, just talking about reactOS related stuff
Chungy
at least educate yourself before spewing criticism
Chungy
NTFS was a journaling fs before Linux even dreamt of such things
Anonymous
NTFS was a journaling fs before Linux even dreamt of such things
This is true, but hey, Linux progressed
Windows didn't get a file system update in 20 years (since Win2K)
Stas'M
This is true, but hey, Linux progressed
Windows didn't get a file system update in 20 years (since Win2K)
> Windows didn't get a file system update
NTFS itself was updated between different NT kernel versions
Chungy
what's kind of funnier too, the modern design of filesystems ditched the concept of a journal, being a solution to a problem inherent with rewrite-in-place file systems.
Anonymous
> Windows didn't get a file system update
NTFS itself was updated between different NT kernel versions
Linux filesystems like Extended 4, are so different than Extended 3, that they aren't even compatible by themselves
Create an NTFS partition in Windows 2000, and then try to install Windows 10 or something, it'll work right away
Stas'M
Chungy
Tobiyo
at least educate yourself before spewing criticism
i wasn't trying to criticise it per se
Chungy
and yes, you can create NTFS with Windows NT 3.1 and it'll work in Windows 10. The downside, it upgrades the on-disk format so NT 3.1 can't mount it anymore.
(this is not dissimilar to in-place upgrades of ext2 or ext3 to ext4)
Anonymous
and yes, you can create NTFS with Windows NT 3.1 and it'll work in Windows 10. The downside, it upgrades the on-disk format so NT 3.1 can't mount it anymore.
(this is not dissimilar to in-place upgrades of ext2 or ext3 to ext4)
Windows NT 3.1 can't handle more than a "insert number' of space
I think it's like in the neighborhood of, well let's say for a 1990 era OS, 128GB, which is rather low by today's standards, but certainly impossible to get in one PC back in those days
Chungy
doesn't matter for the point
Tobiyo
and the backwards compatitbility is something windows does well imo
Chungy
and for what it's worth, Theodore T'so (maintainer of the ext* file system) doesn't even consider ext4 to be a major change. It's ext2 with some more feature flags enabled.
Chungy
basically the same file system from 1994 with a few more features added to keep it running (and even then, it still is rather limited for modern computers)
Tobiyo
limited in what sense?
Anonymous
Hence why there are some way newer file systems for Linux OSes, that work way better, like XFS, ZFS, F2FS (saying this one is better is a stretch honestly), BTRFS and so on
Tobiyo
i'm rather confused about file systems now
Chungy
It hasn't caught up with disk/volume size requirements very well. Being limited to 16TiB for example. Limited to 64KiB xattrs, ACLs are bolted on through xattrs rather than being a native feature
Chungy
T'so considered ext4 to be a stopgap measure to keep it running until btrfs became ready. he didn't forsee btrfs dying like it did.