"utterly stupid" ???

Actually, scrap that. First GUI was made by Xerox IIRC

Exactly

Which Apple copied, and Microsoft copied Apple.

Alongside with the mouse./

And Xerox is irrelevant, so...

H

It's clear that you're an Apple fanboy @Rustiful . But leaving that aside. The default should work in most of cases. If you have a default that is a headache to use and you need to tweak as soon as you start your brand new system... then something's wrong.

It's clear that you're an Apple fanboy @Rustiful . But leaving that aside. The default should work in most of cases. If you have a default that is a headache to use and you need to tweak as soon as you start your brand new system... then something's wrong.

I'm far from being "an Apple fanboy".

LOL

I don't think labels are necessary and you should spend a bit more time getting to know me :P

Trust me.

But I insist, there is no reason to have default shortcuts, and the discussions starts from localization shortcuts that ARE standardized, it's just that people don't like them.

Ctrl+n, Ctrl+s, Ctrl+a, Ctrl+e are standard in Spanish offimatic programs

Long story short: Basically US ANSI is the standard for software development.

But I insist, there is no reason to have default shortcuts, and the discussions starts from localization shortcuts that ARE standardized, it's just that people don't like them.

Why not? I use the default that come with the desktop except when the default behaves strange (or get on my way). I'm pretty sure many people do the same.

If you learned that the red button closes the window, you can also learn that Ctrl + A selects all text.

Even if "seleccionar todo" only contains an A and not in the first place.

If you learned that the red button closes the window, you can also learn that Ctrl + A selects all text.

But the same shortcut is for something completely different in the rest of apps. Doesn't make any sense to me.

But the same shortcut is for something completely different in the rest of apps. Doesn't make any sense to me.

What "rest of apps"?

Nautilus in example

Lots of apps aren't even translated to Spanish... Let alone translating shortcuts.

Exactly!

That's what I'm saying

LibreOffice have translated shortcuts but most of apps don't. Most of them just follow the desktop's default.

Is it also Ctrl+G to save in spanish LibreOffice?

LibreOffice have translated shortcuts but most of apps don't. Most of them just follow the desktop's default.

oh ok

I misunderstood

Most of apps "should" translate their shortcuts, that's the point

I think that apps should default to the ones in english

Ctrl+S for saving for example, it is better to be consistent in some things

Most of apps "should" translate their shortcuts, that's the point

No, on the contrary.

All apps should keep shortcuts uniform regardless of language.

It's essentially impossible to translate all apps to all languages, and translating shortcuts in a consistent manner is even more difficult.

Most of apps "should" translate their shortcuts, that's the point

Actually that wouldn't make sense to me, it's about muscular memory, when I press control c I'm not thinking press control and c I'm going to that position.

The world doesn't speak in english

The world doesn't speak in english

So?

That's something that Americans doesn't want to understand

I am not american and I still think it is supposed to be kept a default uniform shortcut map

It doesn't make sense translating shortcuts, they don't even have to make sense . Like control x

'A' for all, 'S' for save, 'B' for bold are made for semantic, so for non-english speakers doesn't make sense

So I have to stick with English just because you're to lazy to translate your app?

I can't agreed with that

'A' for all, 'S' for save, 'B' for bold are made for semantic, so for non-english speakers doesn't make sense

Non English speakers eventually will need to use non English apps. Consistency is more important IMHO

That is not the point, the point is, would the majority of people agree for that? I would love to keep using Ctrl+C for copying

instead of lets say Ctrl+K for copying (in my language)

This is a way to keep people lazy

it is mostly a standard

If you want to property use an app, read the documentation

If an app has it own shortcuts, and you need them, read the documentation to find them

This is a way to keep people lazy

I thought the whole point of computer science is do less work.

The world doesn't speak in english

Actually, yes it does.

The world does speak English. Banks, software, computers speak English.

Sellers, buyers speak English. Hardware also speaks English.

It's just the de-facto standard, like it or not :P

LOL

Keep believing thay

LOL

I can't stop laughing

Thanks for make my day

Why would I want to read the docs for every single tiny program? There is a computer science field called human computer interaction, one of the first things they teach you is the user should learn as least as possible. Your app should be consistent with the rest of the system so that the user finds what he wants to do where he expects it to be

I have to agree that keyboard shortcuts should be uniform across languages

Things like having a diskette as a save logo doesn't make sense anymore. Most of the kids nowadays don't know what that actually is yet they know it's the save button

Even some keyboards have little icons on the keys as a cheat sheet on which given keys mean as keyboard shortcuts in ms office apps

https://www.ethnologue.com/statistics/size

World speak english

ERROR: S client not available

World speak english

Like it or not it's the de facto standard language

And arguing that is just bollocks

Things like having a diskette as a save logo doesn't make sense anymore. Most of the kids nowadays don't know what that actually is yet they know it's the save button

Iconography and semantic are different things. Diskette was used in the whole computing world, is not the same the with the word 'save', 'guardar' or '保存'

Iconography makes more sense to pass the language barrier

But the whole point is that when you do control p you aren't thinking control paste, that's a muscular memory thing. And having consistency for that is more important than having it translated. Anyway both of us have made our points and nobody seems to be changing their mind

Ctrl+S for saving for example, it is better to be consistent in some things

Exactly.

But the whole point is that when you do control p you aren't thinking control paste, that's a muscular memory thing. And having consistency for that is more important than having it translated. Anyway both of us have made our points and nobody seems to be changing their mind

No, it's just sharing POVs, I like that a lot

'A' for all, 'S' for save, 'B' for bold are made for semantic, so for non-english speakers doesn't make sense

Nobody actually thinks what the shortcut means (if it has any meaning), as long as it's easy to remember and type. Why Ctrl+V id for pasting? Who knows!!! The thing is that is handy Ctrl+C and then Ctrl+V. That's all.

Nobody actually thinks what the shortcut means (if it has any meaning), as long as it's easy to remember and type. Why Ctrl+V id for pasting? Who knows!!! The thing is that is handy Ctrl+C and then Ctrl+V. That's all.

I know why

xD

I thought the whole point of computer science is do less work.

I must strongly agree with this!!!

But I research it a long time ago

I must strongly agree with this!!!

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't read the documentation

I read the documentation of my car

Most of people don't

I can't stop laughing

Why is it so funny? I don't really see the joke.

Why would I want to read the docs for every single tiny program? There is a computer science field called human computer interaction, one of the first things they teach you is the user should learn as least as possible. Your app should be consistent with the rest of the system so that the user finds what he wants to do where he expects it to be

But... You DO have to learn some stuff. Learning shortcuts is not much more difficult than learning to place .com at the end of google

And if you don't want to learn shortcuts, the mouse can still operate...

I read the documentation of my car

I haven't a car nor I mean to have one. I had read the scientific principles that moves it though. But I don't think you can apply that to the rest of human beings.

And I strongly think that a lot of accidents can be avoided if the people understand how their car works

Oh, now that's true

https://www.ethnologue.com/statistics/size

Chinese and Spanish is irrelevant. We're counting non-natives here. And most people have English as second language, like it or not.

You will reach the most amount of people speaking English than in any other language. It's a well known fact. This is not debatable.

In order of use, the first place is for English and the second place is for Spanish.

In order of use, the first place is for English and the second place is for Spanish.

Indeed

That said, I am Spanish myself. Know English as you can well see, and find myself currently learning Chinese.

https://www.ethnologue.com/statistics/size

This is pointless. Chinese also speak English, specially when they want to interact to others. Also, saying "Chinese" is a bit deceiving as the differences between areas and ethnias are so huge that people from a city may not understand people from another just because they use a different type of Chinese.

This is pointless. Chinese also speak English, specially when they want to interact to others. Also, saying "Chinese" is a bit deceiving as the differences between areas and ethnias are so huge that people from a city may not understand people from another just because they use a different type of Chinese.

^

But... You DO have to learn some stuff. Learning shortcuts is not much more difficult than learning to place .com at the end of google

Sure you have to learn something but it's better if you already know it. The reason why I use gnome and not i3 is because I'm lazy and don't want to learn new stuff, I just want to get shit done and gnome is just brilliant for that

Sure you have to learn something but it's better if you already know it. The reason why I use gnome and not i3 is because I'm lazy and don't want to learn new stuff, I just want to get shit done and gnome is just brilliant for that

You don't "already" know anything about computers if you don't know computers in the first place...

Picture this: Maybe you make great cakes, and find yourself savy in electronics. That doesn't grant you knowledge to fix a car. Computers work the same.

Computers require specific motor and cognitive skills that are exclusive to computing.