But I, like I said, advise against buying a laptop with an Nvidia card

You can disable it on the BIOS. That's what I would do.

what? you were just against nvidia and now suddenly youre for it

When was I against Nvidia?

I only said I dislike non Intel GPUs on laptops.

or are you only against laptop nvidia cards?

I only said I dislike non Intel GPUs on laptops.

ah. i intepreted it wrong.

worse with free software supporters talking about things like intel ME, what a shitshow

I don't understand. Is it wrong to comment what kind of hardware works better with open source?

I don't understand. Is it wrong to comment what kind of hardware works better with open source?

Seems like...

That's new for me...

It's new to everybody

If someone like Intel HW it's his/her problem, as well as if is fan of apple

It's called freedom

BTW, Intel is not fully open source. How manny of you have read the Licence they use to distribute wireless firmware?, if Fedora didn't have a more flexible politic towards firmwares the user experience of Intel wireless card would be as pleasant as in Debian...

BTW, Intel is not fully open source. How manny of you have read the Licence they use to distribute wireless firmware?, if Fedora didn't have a more flexible politic towards firmwares the user experience of Intel wireless card would be as pleasant as in Debian...

You're right, and still with that flexibility, there is a lot of HW that doesn't work directly...

For example the broadcom drivers, that is provided by the akmod-wl package from external repos

BTW, Intel is not fully open source. How manny of you have read the Licence they use to distribute wireless firmware?, if Fedora didn't have a more flexible politic towards firmwares the user experience of Intel wireless card would be as pleasant as in Debian...

Maybe. I hadn't wireless back in the moment I used Debian. But up to now I never had a problem with Intel wireless, although I think my Magallanes 2 needed closed source drivers because Trisquel didn't work on it.

Maybe. I hadn't wireless back in the moment I used Debian. But up to now I never had a problem with Intel wireless, although I think my Magallanes 2 needed closed source drivers because Trisquel didn't work on it.

They allow you to distribute the firmware only as a binary, so there is access to the source code. That's the reason why Debian doesn't has it in the main repo and why Trisquel needs a closed source.

Maybe. I hadn't wireless back in the moment I used Debian. But up to now I never had a problem with Intel wireless, although I think my Magallanes 2 needed closed source drivers because Trisquel didn't work on it.

How was your experience with Trisquel? Overall?

Indeed the firmware is closed source, it is not open or Free, just a shareware...

Disappointing @Dhanesh95 I was completely offline. I liked the desktop though. But you don't pick an entire OS just for a tunned desktop. Me think.

Disappointing @Dhanesh95 I was completely offline. I liked the desktop though. But you don't pick an entire OS just for a tunned desktop. Me think.

We still haven't reached the point where everything will work with free software.

I never had a problem with Fedora.

We still haven't reached the point where everything will work with free software.

Sadly no ?

They allow you to distribute the firmware only as a binary, so there is access to the source code. That's the reason why Debian doesn't has it in the main repo and why Trisquel needs a closed source.

Maybe I didn't explain myself correctly. I hadn't wifi with Debian because I was using a desktop computer so I was using normal ADSL. Therefore, I hadn't the chance to try whether it worked or not for me under Debian. Regarding Trisquel, it was very disappointing because the answer I got was "buy another one". I was using a OLPC netbook from a Latin American country. Are you serious?? How unrespectful is that? I preferred to come back to a system that works with a community that helps. As simply as that.

Maybe I didn't explain myself correctly. I hadn't wifi with Debian because I was using a desktop computer so I was using normal ADSL. Therefore, I hadn't the chance to try whether it worked or not for me under Debian. Regarding Trisquel, it was very disappointing because the answer I got was "buy another one". I was using a OLPC netbook from a Latin American country. Are you serious?? How unrespectful is that? I preferred to come back to a system that works with a community that helps. As simply as that.

Or simply change the OS. Trisquel is for people with strong beliefs.

And I respect that.

That's what I did. I switched back to Fedora.

That's what I did. I switched back to Fedora.

Well done.

Fedora is ❤️

I don't find respectful to ask to someone living in a poor country to buy something that is expensive or even unavailable. I don't like that.

Fedora is ❤️

Exactly.

I don't find respectful to ask to someone living in a poor country to buy something that is expensive or even unavailable. I don't like that.

It is not offensive, once again, it depends on the point of view. It is a very subjective matter, chill out.

It is not offensive, once again, it depends on the point of view. It is a very subjective matter, chill out.

Well, no. offensive no. They didn't say insults, haha. But I wouldn't call "strong beliefs" to their attitude. Anyway, I don't care. I have a laptop, I have a system and I'm getting my stuff done. That's what matter. ?

BTW, Intel is not fully open source. How manny of you have read the Licence they use to distribute wireless firmware?, if Fedora didn't have a more flexible politic towards firmwares the user experience of Intel wireless card would be as pleasant as in Debian...

my experience has been even more unpleasant because of broadcom

I don't understand. Is it wrong to comment what kind of hardware works better with open source?

i dont understand what youre talking about, honestly

For example the broadcom drivers, that is provided by the akmod-wl package from external repos

oh you said it already

Oh hai Fedora

I don't find respectful to ask to someone living in a poor country to buy something that is expensive or even unavailable. I don't like that.

you don't seem to understand that trisquel is for people with strong believes regarding free software, so they believe that everything that is nonfree is unacceptable. the could have been even more rude towards you, im sure.

Is it possible that you all are discussing the same side of this issue but using words differently? It seems like one view is that this group things non-free is non-acceptable and they suggest replacing all non-free hardware. The other view seems to be that suggesting hardware replacement is not a practical solution for all people given world variations in economic status and purchasing power. This doesn't sound like a respect/insult issue.

The respect issue isn't about their beleif, it's about how they comunicate with other people

Overall when you're talking about people with a benefit like OLPC

Oh hai Fedora

Hi @plemaire welcome to the group!

Normally oriented to people with economic limitations

I have my opinions about "the people with strongs believes about free software", but this doesn't neither the place or the moment to talk about it

@bexelbie Is exactly what @x3mboy said.

I have my opinions about "the people with strongs believes about free software", but this doesn't neither the place or the moment to talk about it

Yeah, you're right maybe.

Normally oriented to people with economic limitations

yeah. to be completely free you gotta have some money, some people cant afford freedom and i am aware of that but triquels "market" or userbase (cant remember the correct word) is pretty much extremists

yeah. to be completely free you gotta have some money, some people cant afford freedom and i am aware of that but triquels "market" or userbase (cant remember the correct word) is pretty much extremists

I know, and I understand both things. They seems to be the ones that doesn't understand or "se hacen los locos" about the people and their problems. I can't deny a free laptop to a child that wants to learn how to code, or even how to read and learn maths, or just learn something, because the one who is manufacturing the laptop use cheap components that doesn't have free firmwares.

Sorry for the spanish sentence, but I don't know a phrase that fit into that

If you order millions of pieces of hardware, it's no extra cost to also insist on freeing the firmware

Sorry for the spanish sentence, but I don't know a phrase that fit into that

They play fool. That should be the English translation.

If you order millions of pieces of hardware, it's no extra cost to also insist on freeing the firmware

It's not always that easy. Manufacturers many times have their own patents, workarounds and other stuff in firmware, that they see as trade secret

freeing the firmware would not make it patent-free, so you wouldn't be able to really use much of it anyway

The reason they have, I really don't care. They are givin' a laptop for free to a child 'period'

and some companies would gladly pass the sale of "milions of laptops" in such case

I understand and accept their conditions if I can install Linux, even if is with a binary firmware for some components

The reason they have, I really don't care. They are givin' a laptop for free to a child 'period'

its a good thing but im afraid that it will lead to advertising in todays world advertising is a huge thing and i wouldnt be surprised if the children were taken advantage of by advertising

The reason they have, I really don't care. They are givin' a laptop for free to a child 'period'

Exactly. And for that person, that child that receives a laptop that will open the door to education, information and opportunities that may not have any other mean to access. You can't say "It's not a free firmware, better having nothing".

its a good thing but im afraid that it will lead to advertising in todays world advertising is a huge thing and i wouldnt be surprised if the children were taken advantage of by advertising

Advertising like what? Like installing Windows? Like adding commercial results in searches as Ubuntu does? As stickers or brands on the laptop? Another way?

Best LaTeX editor, anybody? (please reply to me directly, so I get notified)

Best LaTeX editor, anybody? (please reply to me directly, so I get notified)

TeXstudio is pretty solid

@bmgxc9 Did you try Lyx or Latexila?

Advertising like what? Like installing Windows? Like adding commercial results in searches as Ubuntu does? As stickers or brands on the laptop? Another way?

like installing windows, and all the other proprietary software such as adobe tools and ms word on it. this way the child would become comfortable with these tools and keep using them in the future. its a common thing in many schools to do, giving away a laptop with a bunch of software on it that seems really nice of them to do but it really is just a way to advertise

@bmgxc9 Did you try Lyx or Latexila?

I haven't tried any of them yet.

I'm just now getting into LaTeX

ERROR: S client not available

like installing windows, and all the other proprietary software such as adobe tools and ms word on it. this way the child would become comfortable with these tools and keep using them in the future. its a common thing in many schools to do, giving away a laptop with a bunch of software on it that seems really nice of them to do but it really is just a way to advertise

Honestly? It's their problem

like installing windows, and all the other proprietary software such as adobe tools and ms word on it. this way the child would become comfortable with these tools and keep using them in the future. its a common thing in many schools to do, giving away a laptop with a bunch of software on it that seems really nice of them to do but it really is just a way to advertise

Haha, that's pretty impossible in the OLPC netbooks. They're too limited in hardware to support anything coming from Microsoft. NOt to mention Adobe.

Not everyone is brainwashed by ads.

Best LaTeX editor, anybody? (please reply to me directly, so I get notified)

vim/emacs lol

Not everyone is brainwashed by ads.

True.

Not everyone is brainwashed by ads.

kids aren't hard to brainwash, you know

Schools should teach critical thinking instead of useless bullshit you'll forget after the exam.

kids aren't hard to brainwash, you know

Ok. Read above.

kids aren't hard to brainwash, you know

Actually, I must disagree. Kids are quite hard to convince.

like installing windows, and all the other proprietary software such as adobe tools and ms word on it. this way the child would become comfortable with these tools and keep using them in the future. its a common thing in many schools to do, giving away a laptop with a bunch of software on it that seems really nice of them to do but it really is just a way to advertise

If Microsoft is covering part of the costs is it strange that they will try to do that? Sure it's a way of advertising, just like providing free software to schools or universities, but I personally would like children to become fluent in Word and Excel and find a job using these skills than to get nothing; also if the teacher is good then children will see alternatives

Schools should teach critical thinking instead of useless bullshit you'll forget after the exam.

Of course if they taught critical thinking politicians would be at risk... Hehehehe

Of course if they taught critical thinking politicians would be at risk... Hehehehe

LOL Not only politicians I'm afraid

Haha, that's pretty impossible in the OLPC netbooks. They're too limited in hardware to support anything coming from Microsoft. NOt to mention Adobe.

that's great. then i see no problem with that program, no matter whether the computers come with free or nonfree components

Actually, I must disagree. Kids are quite hard to convince.

yes, but people will remember their favorite brands from their childhoods. it also applies to software.

that's great. then i see no problem with that program, no matter whether the computers come with free or nonfree components

Actually these netbooks came free to open and change, originally. But in Uruguay, where I used them, it was forbidden to do so. But you were still able to install other systems if you wanted to. Nevertheless, they all come with some Fedora/Ubuntu installed.

LOL Not only politicians I'm afraid

yeah, most businesses as well..

With the kind of buying power the public sector has (and many companies), they can make it happen, without extra cost

Also keep in mind that Excel, Word and so on are de facto standard in the corporate world, knowing those will make it easier to find a job; you can say that if people will know LibreOffice this will change but unfortunately until LO is backed by a big company that you can throw money at for support and until they provide groupware suite, we kinda lost the war

yes, but people will remember their favorite brands from their childhoods. it also applies to software.

Of course. Once you convince them. That's hard work, I tell you. I worked as volunteer in OLPC with kids from 6 to 12. Some of them were quite vocal about their preferences related to their machines.

free software fits well into an idea of "public funds for public purposes"

In Venezuela the laptops given by the goverment were using a fork of debian called Canaima, and OLPC came with Sugar Desktop, so It's linux, no MS involved

If Microsoft is covering part of the costs is it strange that they will try to do that? Sure it's a way of advertising, just like providing free software to schools or universities, but I personally would like children to become fluent in Word and Excel and find a job using these skills than to get nothing; also if the teacher is good then children will see alternatives

i have thought about the problem from that point of view as well. the kids dont really have a choice, they aren't taught about any alternatives or anything but rather they will only learn to use the proprietary tools such as microsoft windows, word, excel, adobe photoshop and all the other stuff. i really wish schools would educate kids on these things more. like @LianTianRong said, critical thinking would be a nice thing to teach.

also, free software need not be strictly be immediately money-saving, the system-wide effects of free and available IP also has a compounding effect

i have thought about the problem from that point of view as well. the kids dont really have a choice, they aren't taught about any alternatives or anything but rather they will only learn to use the proprietary tools such as microsoft windows, word, excel, adobe photoshop and all the other stuff. i really wish schools would educate kids on these things more. like @LianTianRong said, critical thinking would be a nice thing to teach.

I agree they should use LibreOffice as well, then they will learn the mindset and not the program itself

@x3mboy In Uruguay, Microsoft tried to push their system but failed because it ran too slow and many times hadn't the necessary tools. Office and so is adult's stuff. On children/educational areas Microsoft isn't really strong.

Fortunately, often, proprietary workflows are easily translatable to FOSS alternatives.

but the truth is, when they'll go to work for a bigger company, then well, yeah.

I learned Photoshop and continued on GIMP, for example.

But it also needs a few people trying to make things usable, by using it

Learned Windows and switched to Linux.

Fortunately, often, proprietary workflows are easily translatable to FOSS alternatives.

people don't care. they just want to keep using what they're comfortable with.

people don't care. they just want to keep using what they're comfortable with.

That is entirely their choice.