Internal builds 😏
😃
static
Sunil
I mainly use ARM64 and have actually been porting some basic x86-64 assembly code to ARM64. Only now am I looking at ARMv7 (and PPC64/LE and after that RISCV64)
static
PowerPC/POWER?
Sunil
Yes
static
Why port ROS to PPC?
Stas'M
https://reactos.org/wiki/PowerPC
Sunil
PPC64LE is new POWER8 and newer hardware
✝️ ☺️🌞 HD Scania
Chungy
Probably because Microsoft pays thousands of people to work on Windows and a few of them can dedicate to a arm64 port.
Chungy
That few may very well be larger than the ROS team
Petrus
Msoft would want to do ARM ports for their IoT projects
✝️ ☺️🌞 HD Scania
Why port ROS to PPC?
If i was to start an distro amd64 should be my primary port, where the secondary ports are arm64 and power9
Victor
Victor
If not, it's a problem
Sunil
Does gcc support SEH on arm/aarch64?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mingw-w64#Compiler mentions MingW has compilers for aarch64 and armv7, but I don't know any details
Sunil
That seems to be based on LLVM/Clang, though
Sunil
https://github.com/mstorsjo/llvm-mingw
Mark
Using llvm instead of gcc would make sense
realAceHW
whoever named this group does know that the "Jehovah's Witnesses" is a cult, right?
realAceHW
btw, any timeframe on when ReactOS might graduate to beta?
Chungy
it's not a cult
realAceHW
lol ok
realAceHW
so beta when?
Chungy
it's a little bit whacky compared to mainstream Christianity. kind of like how LDS can be seen that way. but no way does it really fit the bill of a cult.
realAceHW
lol no really
realAceHW
any timeframe on beta?
Chungy
nope
realAceHW
oof
Chungy
Probably when a reasonably complete Windows XP/2003 implementation is done.
realAceHW
hmm
Chungy
There are no timeframes. ReactOS is entirely volunteer work by a tiny group of developers. You may pitch in if you'd like.
static
By the way, how is Windows 2000 API support?
Chungy
it is a subset of Windows 2003 that's the current target. XP and 2003 had near-perfect compat with Windows 2000 applications and as such, ReactOS having perfect 2003 compat should also mean 2000.
It's probably even possible for ReactOS to be even better than Windows 2003 was.
Chungy
The only known incompatibility I know about is Oracle9 Database... it did some crazy things that meant it worked on Windows 2000 only and had subtle breaks on XP and 2003.
there's probably other examples.
Chungy
Hypothetically every new version of Windows is a superset of the old APIs/ABIs. Vista broke a few things and 10 breaks a lot of things.
Chungy
with right engineering and possibly compatibility modes, it's not impossible for ReactOS to eventually have better Windows compatibility than Windows.
realAceHW
nice
JeisonWi
static
with right engineering and possibly compatibility modes, it's not impossible for ReactOS to eventually have better Windows compatibility than Windows.
Isn't Wine already used to implement support for 16-bit Windows on 64-bit systems (unofficially)?
Chungy
ReactOS presently targets Windows Server 2003 SP1 for the kernel ABIs. This mostly means that Windows 2000, XP, and 2003 drivers should work and if they don't, it's a bug. Drivers for older or newer versions are not supposed to work at all.
Some NT6.x/10 features can be supported purely through userspace libraries (*.dll files)
realAceHW
and if microsoft would opensource a reproducible build of an MSDOS, maybe we could have full open source MSDOS on ReactOS
Chungy
Isn't Wine already used to implement support for 16-bit Windows on 64-bit systems (unofficially)?
on Linux. Wine translates 16-bit code into 32-bit in real time and runs them that way. but yeah a single Wine installation can run 16, 32, and 64 bit software all at once
static
Also, Wine is now implementing NT API emulation too. Could that be useful for ROS?
realAceHW
ReactOS presently targets Windows Server 2003 SP1 for the kernel ABIs. This mostly means that Windows 2000, XP, and 2003 drivers should work and if they don't, it's a bug. Drivers for older or newer versions are not supposed to work at all.
Some NT6.x/10 features can be supported purely through userspace libraries (*.dll files)
why can't you add support for some newer stuff if it happens to not be too difficult, and it's a bonus if newer stuff works
static
Also, Wine is now implementing NT API emulation too. Could that be useful for ROS?
Especially since some Wine developement is sponsored by game companies via Proton.
Chungy
Also, Wine is now implementing NT API emulation too. Could that be useful for ROS?
Wine's been doing it for as long as ReactOS :P
ReactOS from time to time imports much of the Wine user space.
Chungy
and that's part of the thing about Wine: it's almost only user space, because kernel concerns like graphics, sound, networking are already handled on Linux and so it doesn't need to do them
realAceHW
static
I knew that Wine emulated only Win32
Chungy
why can't you add support for some newer stuff if it happens to not be too difficult, and it's a bonus if newer stuff works
It's done on a volunteer basis. Some of the stuff that isn't supported happens to be things nobody has cared about.
realAceHW
Chungy
so it's of limited usefullness?
It can't run Windows drivers and if that's your goal... well ReactOS is made for that.
realAceHW
ok
static
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Wine-5.10-Released
static
This is what I'm referring to, NTDLL emulation
realAceHW
anybody think Vulkan will be the top thing in its class anytime soon?
Chungy
Phoronix is kind of dumb and should not be considered a reliable source.
Chungy
git log shows this as the origin of dlls/ntdll, and even its message hints at even older stuff
commit 51505b12b39613d7107dcf899d7d0db71a0b8cc1
Author: Marcus Meissner <marcus@jet.franken.de>
Date: 1998-11-01 06:00:21 -0800
More Nt* and Rtl* function stubs, moved ntdll.c to dlls/ntdll/.
realAceHW
Phoronix is kind of dumb and should not be considered a reliable source.
it's mostly Linux-focused
realAceHW
hmm
Chungy
It's basically a fanboy site with all the negative connotations that implies.
static
I didn't know that
realAceHW
It's basically a fanboy site with all the negative connotations that implies.
would you like to tell that to some Linux people? I could bring you to a place where some Linux devs and a few youtubers and some podcasters hang out
realAceHW
on telegram
Chungy
anyway yeah... Wine has had a history of triggering anti-cheat or DRM measures and it's a difficult problem. Lately they've transitioned to building DLLs as actual Windows PE files instead of ELF so files. It helps certain anti-cheats or DRMs that detect different in-memory and on-disk contents of DLL files.
Chungy
haha. I don't want to make that my business, but go for it if you want to :)
realAceHW
would you like to tell that to some Linux people? I could bring you to a place where some Linux devs and a few youtubers and some podcasters hang out
@destinationlinux
@DestlinThePolitics
@jupitertelegram
realAceHW
Destination Linux and Jupiter Broadcasting
dairyhungWL🇦🇷
so, NTDLL emulation is prone to be ported to any backend API, so that even on Redox could be run DLLs?
Chungy
probably better to port Wine to Redox, but sure
dairyhungWL🇦🇷
i mean, some unix like, like Zephyr have the infrastructure of a .exe file, so a complete program could be run
Mike
the bigger problem with ros is that many open source developers, just for the hatred of microsoft, prefer to keep pointed towards *nix systems instead of trying to understand the needs of the common user. reactos is way better suited to fight microsoft in their own environment, yet many open source developers refuse to help, thereby helping microsoft indirectly
Chungy
that's not hatred of Microsoft. the Unix system genuinely makes a more appealing option for hackers just for its customizability.