The auto-download is a feature of packagekit that you can turn off

I call it "reading the manual"

I still hate the GUIs for yum/dnf. Somehow, synaptic/aptitude work great

I still hate the GUIs for yum/dnf. Somehow, synaptic/aptitude work great

Have you tried both yumex-dnf and dfndragora?

and dnf is several levels above aptitude command line tools.

Agreed re the GUIs. Re the syntax -- the thing is, I am only experimenting with Fedora, Arch, SUSE etc., to keep semi current about the state of the art. My main distro has been Ubuntu for 13y and I am not expecting to change soon.

Although I, like most people, don't like systemd so I am considering Devuan...

Agreed re the GUIs. Re the syntax -- the thing is, I am only experimenting with Fedora, Arch, SUSE etc., to keep semi current about the state of the art. My main distro has been Ubuntu for 13y and I am not expecting to change soon.

Starting with 17.10-ish all distros will have their main DE be gnome and their only difference being how updated packages are, how good the Q&A is and how long LTS goes versus how stable the updater is.

And for me Fedora won on all accounts starting with Fedora 22 (i even had a machine surviving from 22-26 only by updating the whole system everytime without any reinstalls)

Yes, which probably means I will switch to XFCE. Possibly on SUSE as I will be working for them from next month.

Starting with 17.10-ish all distros will have their main DE be gnome and their only difference being how updated packages are, how good the Q&A is and how long LTS goes versus how stable the updater is.

Resistance is futile

Resistance is futile

It truly is, gnome won't go away as default for anytime soon as it offers one if not the best desktop experience.

Unless you go and tweak stuff

But even then it can hold up to a certain degree

I disagree. :) http://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/52807.html

I disagree. :) http://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/52807.html

First point: not valid. dash-to-dock is an extension you can get even in the distros repos.

If you go by default ootb looks then yes gnome sucks.

But the point is that the community provides so much to make it not that.

Why doesn't everybody just use what they like and not start the 10000th discussion about it

Every argument has been mentioned before

any aws expert here?

I have been experimenting with customising the experience via extensions ever since I read this piece: https://kryogenix.org/days/2017/04/05/making-gnome-shell-feel-like-unity/

And you know what, it works pretty well. But there is no global way to update all GNOME Extensions, and system upgrades always break it, often leaving it unusable

It is not there yet. Doable but not ready for prime time.

And you know what, it works pretty well. But there is no global way to update all GNOME Extensions, and system upgrades always break it, often leaving it unusable

And thats why all most used and supported extensions reside in the package sources and will keep your gnome to the highest version available that is compatible with all your addons.

It is not there yet. Doable but not ready for prime time.

It is there since forever. Almost every piece in your rant has been disproven and can be done with either extensions, tweak-tool or similar manners, most of the time in a easy way that requires you to do it only once.

Heck you can script it.

Which is no help at all if the ones you need are not there. Which they aren't. Also, you assume Fedora, and I'm also trying it on Ubuntu and SUSE. And I use the official browser-based configuration tool, which clashes with package installer methods.

Which is no help at all if the ones you need are not there. Which they aren't. Also, you assume Fedora, and I'm also trying it on Ubuntu and SUSE. And I use the official browser-based configuration tool, which clashes with package installer methods.

Ubuntu sometimes delivers so old packages that you cant build stuff with clang on there because its too old.

I have stopped using it years ago because it had too many shortcomings.

I wouldn't know, I never build from source. And I got fired from Red Hat for daring to point out in how many ways Fedora was broken compared to Ubuntu.

I wouldn't know, I never build from source. And I got fired from Red Hat for daring to point out in how many ways Fedora was broken compared to Ubuntu.

Oh amuse me, how was it broken?

And i remember redhat as being very open to constructive criticism - so if you managed to get fired for a rant there my first reaction would be to assume you gave a very, very uninformed rant showing them that they shouldn't keep you working for them with lack of experience - and i doubt they fired you for doing it once but several times and not listening to how stuff is different or works in another way, sometimes due to programs being too new.

I had the case of someone else trying fedora that couldnt make gnome credentials work with git - but found it after googling because fedora 26 uses a new updated version that now uses libsecret instead. Is that one of the things you'd consider "broken" because "its not like that in ubuntu and i dont read docs"?

Yeah, that's what people said. But the thing is, I was 46 at the time, I had been working with Linux for 20 years, know about 10-12 distros in detail and have been writing and publishing about Linux since 1996 when I assembled the UK's second ever cover CD with Linux on it. I've also deployed it on systems with up to 200,000 users. So I actually know a very great deal about the subject, not that I am claiming to be a world expert or anything.

So you want stuff to continue to be and dont want any change?

Because thats a repeating thing when people get older.

And especially if you work with distributed systems then you'd love rhel/centos because they offer a much broader tooling to manage large userbases and deployments, high availability and and and.

So, no. Not a kid, not a newbie, not a luser, not dumb or ignorant. Actually a fairly seasoned expert. So, to give an example, my main home laptop has 1 SSD + 1 hard disk, and multibooted Windows 7, Ubuntu, Elementary, Arch, and Crunchbang. Fedora couldn't install. I filed a bug. They closed it. So I went downstairs 2 floors and met with the head of the dev team. Who told me "we do not support multiboot with other Linuxes, I am marking this 'will not fix' and closed it.

Especially installation scripting in anaconda is really, really glorious.

That is what I call an attitude problem.

That is what I call an attitude problem.

Yes. I call it "We support Fedora as daily driver for developers and the future of rhel and we dont want to fucking work around the 500 bugs of other distros using older grubs and overwriting our distro when updating them."

Have you tried both yumex-dnf and dfndragora?

I think yumex was pretty okay, but isn't dnfdragora depending on packagekit? The main problem I had with those GUIs was that they were always blocked by something, waiting for something in the background to complete etc., what was not a problem with synaptic/aptitude. I am 100% sure this is a GUI problem and not the particular package management system problem, but still

I disagree. :) http://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/52807.html

Is that your website?

I think yumex was pretty okay, but isn't dnfdragora depending on packagekit? The main problem I had with those GUIs was that they were always blocked by something, waiting for something in the background to complete etc., what was not a problem with synaptic/aptitude. I am 100% sure this is a GUI problem and not the particular package management system problem, but still

yumex-dnf is never really blocked by doing anything in m experience.

Sure it does the intial refresh but that has a loading bar.

After that you can use it fluidly.

It's shit. It just resized three times while I was reading, which realigned the text. I lost my place in the text three times. Really annoying. Technology-wise I mean. Can't say about the content as I'm unable to read properly.

Yes it is my site. And there you go. One man's sensible support policy is another man's attitude problem, but this is why I will not work with fedora or RH products.

It's shit. It just resized three times while I was reading, which realigned the text. I lost my place in the text three times. Really annoying. Technology-wise I mean. Can't say about the content as I'm unable to read properly.

Thats livejournal for you

Then go tell LiveJournal, not me.

Ah, so that's like a hoster for blogs?

Then go tell LiveJournal, not me.

It's you who chose it, no? WordPress or something would've been better imho.

Yes it is my site. And there you go. One man's sensible support policy is another man's attitude problem, but this is why I will not work with fedora or RH products.

Your choice. I rather take the sensible approach to not multiboot crapdos which has repeatedly overwritten grub and bootloaders. I rather jail it in a vga passtrough vm, where it belongs.

It's you who chose it, no? WordPress or something would've been better imho.

Only on the official hoster tough, running wordpress yourself is a dance with the devil.

It's probably the oldest established blog site in the world. I can't believe anyone web literate hasn't heard of it.

Hmm, I'm not sure when this conversation started on Fedora / Red Hat / distro pains, but it doesn't seem like it will be too productive.

It's probably the oldest established blog site in the world. I can't believe anyone web literate hasn't heard of it.

You really should look outside the bubble sometime.

Hmm, I'm not sure when this conversation started on Fedora / Red Hat / distro pains, but it doesn't seem like it will be too productive.

True.

It is a Fedora group and if the point is to criticize Fedora, it will probably just elicit a response from others to defend it

I didn't choose WordPress because in 2002 when I started using that site, as far as I know, WordPress did not exist.

I think we should change the direction go something different than arguing over this, or blog platforms, etc.…

It is a Fedora group and if the point is to criticize Fedora, it will probably just elicit a response from others to defend it

There is sense in reasonable discussion tough.

Only on the official hoster tough, running wordpress yourself is a dance with the devil.

Yup that's what I mean. As a hoster, just like Livejournal. Let them do the work of keeping WordPress up to date and suffer from people exploiting vulns xD

ERROR: S client not available

There is sense in reasonable discussion tough.

There is, so long as it's reasonable and not ad hominem

There is, so long as it's reasonable and not ad hominem

But not multibooting really is up for a discussion because it is a valid theme - and both sides have up and downsides.

Massive ones, nonetheless.

But not multibooting really is up for a discussion because it is a valid theme - and both sides have up and downsides.

Yeah, that's fair on multi-booting. Admittedly, I think innovative Fedora development efforts are going to focus more intently on the Project Atomic area for a while since it's a really exciting area for Fedora to break into. My hope is that the desktop development won't stall like the case with the Unity development for some. I knew a former Ubuntu user who was a Council member and long-time user, and he switched to Fedora because he had filed so many bugs for trivial but annoying issues in Unity, but so much of the development time was elsewhere, I think he said at the time Ubuntu OS for phones was getting the Canonical developer attention

I'm hoping Fedora desktops don't go similar, but then again, we are using upstream projects in the first place

As compared to rolling our own DE

Which I think was the problem with Unity from the start

So I have faith the development efforts on the Fedora desktop won't stall even if Atomic gets a lot of hype and excitement (even though it really is cool, but we're also desktop users too)

Yeah, that's fair on multi-booting. Admittedly, I think innovative Fedora development efforts are going to focus more intently on the Project Atomic area for a while since it's a really exciting area for Fedora to break into. My hope is that the desktop development won't stall like the case with the Unity development for some. I knew a former Ubuntu user who was a Council member and long-time user, and he switched to Fedora because he had filed so many bugs for trivial but annoying issues in Unity, but so much of the development time was elsewhere, I think he said at the time Ubuntu OS for phones was getting the Canonical developer attention

And with ubuntu finally on gnome, stopping most of the "not made here" attitude and planning to work together - and their phones being dead in the water...

As gnome user i'm really happy that now the 4 biggest distros in business work together to make gnome more stable, more intuitive and ubuntu may bring some fresh new ideas to the table.

Half of whom will never make it upstream or into anything but extensions. XD

Which I think was the problem with Unity from the start

+1

As gnome user i'm really happy that now the 4 biggest distros in business work together to make gnome more stable, more intuitive and ubuntu may bring some fresh new ideas to the table.

Yeah, honestly, having Ubuntu be on GNOME by default is super exciting to me too

I was really excited and happy to hear about that switch

#UpstreamWorks

So I have faith the development efforts on the Fedora desktop won't stall even if Atomic gets a lot of hype and excitement (even though it really is cool, but we're also desktop users too)

Atomic is just one part after all - and i think many improvements there will go right back into server and desktop.

Atomic upgrades with complete rollback - or being able to tell dnf to do a rollback of several history changes at the same time would be awesome.

Atomic is just one part after all - and i think many improvements there will go right back into server and desktop.

Yeah, that's fair. Especially for security once some of this technology matures further, outside of the cloud world. Like containerizing everything on the desktop would be ❤️. A long shot, but give it a decade, I think we'll start to see it happen

Atomic upgrades with complete rollback - or being able to tell dnf to do a rollback of several history changes at the same time would be awesome.

The rollbacks are suuuuuper awesome

Yes, but i can only do one at a time

I wish i could: dnf history 21 20 19 18 and rollback 19 would also undo 21 and 20

I wish i could: dnf history 21 20 19 18 and rollback 19 would also undo 21 and 20

That's fair. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like that be properly introduced to DNF in the near future, just with all of this work on rpm-ostree

They propably hold it back out of the strive to be yum-comptible until yum finally goes out of commission.

gnome, recommended d.e. from foss? GNUoem :-D

https://freeopensourcesoftware.org/index.php?title=GNOME

gnome, recommended d.e. from foss? GNUoem :-D

https://www.fsf.org/working-together/gang/gnome Yes, richard stallman himself approves of it. XD

Its the base for trisquel and gnewsense for a reason

well...that's clear ;-)

hello !

anyone know if vmware work in fedora 26?

anyone know if vmware work in fedora 26?

most likely

anyone know if vmware work in fedora 26?

It does but the 3d acceleration is working weird, some stuff is too new for vmware as of now and if you have an nvidia card using vmwares 3d acceleration might yield weird results.