not random users in chat
A very wise answer.
João Paulo
Stas'M
Chungy
dumb thing I did, just wanting to see if Excel 5 and Word 6 can still run on Windows. lol
Chungy
That's actually nowhere as bad as I thought it'd be
Chungy
i should do it on ReactOS, but I don't expect surprises
Chungy
well, the installer doesn't run (16-bit) and copying the files off the CD results in that
Chungy
Excel doesn't start at all
Chungy
didn't expect surprises, but got surprises.
arnavbhatt288
DMCA (copyright law) is only enforceable against copies, be them verbatim or transformed. It can't be used against ideas and concepts (that would be the role of patent law and it has a much shorter time span for protection than copyright law).
Except they constantly abuse the law to shut down any sort of competition in the market
Daniel "TheReimi"
well, the installer doesn't run (16-bit) and copying the files off the CD results in that
Sadly the latest nightly is too long ago to still have the artifact on the unstable d/l site, but the release might help yoiu. https://github.com/otya128/winevdm/releases It did a fine job in the past
Chungy
"too long ago"? I had just compiled it, lol
Chungy
oh, nvm, you're pointing at winevdm
Chungy
hmm. Maybe.
Chungy
I.... "installed" otvdm, it didn't seem to do anything, though?
Chungy
Stas'M
Double check it
Chungy
the error box hints me to the applications manager, that seems more successful
Stas'M
It hints to grep the source code and look at the expected path 😉
Chungy
what?
Stas'M
Stas'M
Expected installation path is %ProgramFiles%\otvdm\otvdmw.exe
This is what path ReactOS expects WineVDM / otvdm executable to be
Chungy
don't know how that's useful but ok
Stas'M
you just look at the messagebox, grep its text over ReactOS source codebase, find the relevant code, read it, and understand it
Chungy
doing it from the applications manager gets it further, but the setup won't continue
Stas'M
Chungy
well, the installer doesn't run (16-bit) and copying the files off the CD results in that
even before when I didn't get to run setup and just copied the files off, it was.... broken :D
granted, that may be a result of not running setup
Chungy
I didn't expect Word 6 to be that troublesome :D
Chungy
was just exploring silly stuff
Chungy
Windows 95 starts out with 1 virtual machine and increases for every 16-bit process started. It doesn't increase here because that version of Word 6 is 32-bit.
Chungy
It makes me think, though, you can run that on 64-bit Windows just fine; I remember reading from Raymond Chen or so that a lot of 16-bit installers were ported to 32-bit and automatically supplanted by WoW64 so they can run on 64-bit Windows.
I don't really know the technical details, but I'd assume that Microsoft got the source code for InstallShield, WiZ, and whatever else is out there and ported it/included it with Windows so it can interject the old installer files?
Chungy
that might be a pretty tall order for ReactOS to do too
Chungy
I guess that setup16.exe is the replacement installer. :D
Chungy
It is a sort of weird artifact though, it is a proper Win32 program, but being done in 1994, it uses all the old controls. It has that Win16 "feel" despite not actually being Win16.
Stas'M
NT 3.x had this look and feel, while being 32-bit
Chungy
aye. It's just more out of place in the newer ones.
Chungy
Word and Excel got ported mostly so they had a native Alpha version, but it was also done for x86 32-bit I guess because "why not"
Chungy
I got a 3.1 VM that I started to really load with the old dev tools, but I almost as soon stopped using it.
Chungy
the first one :b
Chungy
honestly 3.1 feels more like a beta than a real product. 3.51 was the finished one.
João Paulo
It makes me think, though, you can run that on 64-bit Windows just fine; I remember reading from Raymond Chen or so that a lot of 16-bit installers were ported to 32-bit and automatically supplanted by WoW64 so they can run on 64-bit Windows.
I don't really know the technical details, but I'd assume that Microsoft got the source code for InstallShield, WiZ, and whatever else is out there and ported it/included it with Windows so it can interject the old installer files?
I assume Microsoft put an updated copy of those installers inside WOW64, as they didn't create WOW64 to thunk 16 bit executables into 64 bit OS' libraries.
João Paulo
that might be a pretty tall order for ReactOS to do too
Maybe it's better (and easier) to allow 16 bit apps to run on 64 bit OS than try to get updated 32 bit installers to be substituted on the fly as WOW64 does on Windows.
Ꮪꭼꭱꮐꭼꭹ
Hi all./Всем привет.
Chungy
Maybe it's better (and easier) to allow 16 bit apps to run on 64 bit OS than try to get updated 32 bit installers to be substituted on the fly as WOW64 does on Windows.
That's probably the sensible option :)
small technical nitpick though: these tests were done on pure 32-bit.
Mike
Chungy
OS/2 had that style throughout its OS.
Mike
skeuomorphism to an unnecessary extent.
yes, still it had an aesthetic meaning and was quite functional
Chungy
Windows 95/NT4 evolved tabbed dialogs so the tabs still had a paper folder-like texture, but you didn't need to simulate the entire sheet for the whole dialog.
Chungy
Task Manager in that very screenshot is a prime example of such.
João Paulo
honestly 3.1 feels more like a beta than a real product. 3.51 was the finished one.
Windows version numbers are scam 😏
NT 3.1 = really 1.0
NT 3.51 = 1.5.1
NT 4.0 = 2.0
2000 (NT 5.0) = 3.0
XP (NT 5.1) = 3.1
Vista (NT 6.0) = 4.0
7 (NT 6.1) = 4.1
8 (NT 6.2) = 4.2
8.1 (NT 6.3) = 4.3
10 (NT 10) = 5.0
11 (NT 10) = 5.1
Chungy
sure, NT 3.1 was what other projects might call a "1.0" but they at least had a good reason to make it match the current not-NT version of Windows at the time.
Chungy
also, Windows 10 and 11 are not different enough from Vista to warrant a major version number... not even in the old Microsoft numbering system. Which is why they identify themselves as version 6.3/Windows 8.1 to applications that don't have a manifest to find the real version.
Alejandro Jeditobe
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2024/08/microsoft-donates-the-mono-project-to-the-wine-team/
Tobiyo
I dunno, to me it sounds like they're forking it then forking the old codebase over
Alejandro Jeditobe
Julio
Since when Mono was owned by MS?
João Paulo
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2024/08/microsoft-donates-the-mono-project-to-the-wine-team/
I have mixed feelings about it.
It's nice to acknowledge the importance of Wine; however, they gave an open source project they abandoned to focus on their own fork.
Alejandro Jeditobe
Since when Mono was owned by MS?
On February 24, 2016, Microsoft announced it had signed a definitive agreement to acquire Xamarin.
Julio
Chungy
Since when Mono was owned by MS?
since they purchased Ximian, they've been the owners of Mono
Tobiyo
I have mixed feelings about it.
It's nice to acknowledge the importance of Wine; however, they gave an open source project they abandoned to focus on their own fork.
Yeah same, if they partnered with wine that would be something else
Stas'M
it's yes https://youtu.be/cZ2JMq7RRpg
Chungy
what do GMOs have to do with ReactOS?
Chungy
probably a joke, but it's weird xD
Stas'M
maybe it's a joke on proprietary binary blobs (that are missing)
Alejandro Jeditobe
maybe it's a joke on proprietary binary blobs (that are missing)
yep joke was in this direction
Chungy
"it takes 20 minutes to build" probably taking an average time, but ... heh.
$ time (./configure.sh && cd output-MinGW-i386 && ninja bootcd)
[...]
real 3m11.447s
user 68m16.463s
sys 12m14.620s
Chungy
3 minutes :p
Stas'M
a bit too modern computer 😁
Chungy
Maybe :)
Alejandro Jeditobe
Chungy
Good point
Chungy
most people don't have 32 cores, also granted
João Paulo
most people don't have 32 cores, also granted
I think my new laptop has 6 cores, 2 without hyperthread capabilities and 4 with HT capabilities, for a virtual amount of 10 cores.
Lindro
https://youtu.be/BQBZpHODsg4?si=00Wu3VMEmof2Rlyt&t=572 reactos mentioned raaah
Chungy
Stas'M
Chungy
not my photo :)