Undefined behaviour ig

Yea. Where is the problem with that?

seems like you are the only guy to use this term

already done

Still: where is the problem with UB?

Still: where is the problem with UB?

did you read my post at all?

nobody forces you to use the stl

never claimed they did. Just means it's really hard to work with people who turn to the STL for everything

did you read my post at all?

Yes I did

Yes I did

so what's was the original claim about UB there?

never claimed they did. Just means it's really hard to work with people who turn to the STL for everything

the STL is the best thing that ever happened to C++

you SHOULD do use it

so what's was the original claim about UB there?

that C has a bit of it and C++ has tons of it

you imply that C++ is bad because of that

I don't like the amount of abstraction that the STL introduces though

you SHOULD do use it

dude... there are hundreds of cases where it is not applicable

that C has a bit of it and C++ has tons of it

For sure?

Urgh not this debate again

that C has a bit of it and C++ has tons of it

right. got the point? it is harder "get work done" in a field where CS is just a part of the story AND force people to learn about "static initialization fiasco" when dealing with C++ . they use C. it is easier.

right. got the point? it is harder "get work done" in a field where CS is just a part of the story AND force people to learn about "static initialization fiasco" when dealing with C++ . they use C. it is easier.

when you writing in C++ - you need to know C++ very well. when you writing in C - you need to spend lot less time learning it and invest more time about digging how the accel is working (for example).

and yeah, not giving a fuck about ABI and not knowing what UB is in your position of ""LEAD DEVELOPER"" is kinda scary

I much prefer problems to be my fault and not the language's. The more that's under my control, the more that I can fix without relying on other people

I much prefer problems to be my fault and not the language's. The more that's under my control, the more that I can fix without relying on other people

you hit the spot

Like, I'm not going to ask people to use a patched version of a library so it works with my program *cough* telegram *cough*

and yeah, not giving a fuck about ABI and not knowing what UB is in your position of ""LEAD DEVELOPER"" is kinda scary

its not scary because they are NOT real problems

How is UB not a real problem?

How IS it a problem?

Oh god, I'd love to break your software if you develop with that attitude

its not scary because they are NOT real problems

now tell me about accessing nullptr

now tell me about accessing nullptr

yes?

yes?

are you using cin ?

not in clinl

What happens if I point an element of an array to an arbitrary point in memory?

What happens if I point an element of an array to an arbitrary point in memory?

Will return the content of the memory location

Which will be?

Will return the content of the memory location

uffff

Which will be?

the content of the memory location

You don't know because that behaviour is undefined

uffff

learn about osdev before "uffffing" randomly

it may break your program or it may return garbage. you don't knpw

*know

learn about osdev before "uffffing" randomly

my little friend, I'm an OS developer actually.

You don't know because that behaviour is undefined

so EVERYTIME I access a variable its an undefined behaviour

my little friend, I'm an OS developer actually.

LoL

No, accessing random memory locations is undefined behavour. It's defined if it is within the bounds of your program.

Dudes, i'm sick of your religious love towards C so let's call it a day

so, I will help you a bit. a) accessing memory trough pointer which doesn't point to any valid object is UB. go learn C++ standart, kid. b) go check 'secure coding in C++' book.

I take it you don't do defensive development

so, I will help you a bit. a) accessing memory trough pointer which doesn't point to any valid object is UB. go learn C++ standart, kid. b) go check 'secure coding in C++' book.

calling me a kid in a debate is kind of a thing you try to avoid when debating

Please for the love of $deity ask someone like Mike Larkin or Phillip Guenther what the problem with your way of thinking is

calling me a kid in a debate is kind of a thing you try to avoid when debating

debating about C++ and saying "UB is not a problem" is the same thing

Or alternatively Colin Percival

who is a genius

SO what does C have as a solution for UB?

remember that C is almost fully compatible to C++

SO what does C have as a solution for UB?

it has no solutions. the list of UBs in C is far less smaller.

it has no solutions. the list of UBs in C is far less smaller.

Because it has less functionalities?

Trust me: ub is not a problem

anyway, piano lessons

Trust me: ub is not a problem

after what you've said, I will never trust you nor your products

after what you've said, I will never trust you nor your products

Whatever

Trust me: ub is not a problem

it is - you must know it. hardware enginerrs don't give a damn, why a vector can't reallocate memory when you accessing it past its boundaries.

they need to write a driver. right here, right now. to make it in C++ you need lot more knowledge. about OOP in particular. about templates.

and about tons of other stuff, like: - why can't put template class/function into the source file - why linking error when trying to call C function from other library - why 10 pages of duck typing error when passing invalid parameter into the template argument - why can't memset(this) - why UB when destructor is not virtual? - why code is bloated? - why tons of linkage errors when enabling exceptions? - how to force static initialization order? and more, more, more

and killer nail - C++ exceptions and standart libraries are not realtime.

lol some things you need to know even if you are not hardware engineer lol

double lol

I mean that if you are dealing with C++, you forced to solve C++ - related issues, every time. When you writing in C - well, you have plain and simple language, so you can go and do other stuff, that more important than programming

Oh...

you don't need to spend hours of reading "Effective C++", then "Effective modern C++", after "More Effective C++", then "C++ Concurrency In Action"... and the list is going on and on

You don't?

well I agree

anyone uses c++ exceptions?hahahah

switched to other books. more technology-related. "Secure coding", "Analog interfacing to MCU", "ARM definitive guide".

Still, if you know how to use the STL you are likely to have as efficient code in C++. Furthermore you have less effort and rely on a well tested libraries. The combination of less code and a tested library is likely to yield more reliable and secure software

Still, if you know how to use the STL you are likely to have as efficient code in C++. Furthermore you have less effort and rely on a well tested libraries. The combination of less code and a tested library is likely to yield more reliable and secure software

in many areas, as I said, you can't use STL. in many cases, you have no time learning STL. you can't even do a new or malloc. it is not about efficiency. it is about time you need to workaround limitations or learn things in order to do one, fairly simple, task

I don't argue that C++ is a great language

I do argue that C is a great language and it is used because of C++ is not applicable everywhere

There are many parts of the STL that do not rely on dynamic memory allocation. And container offer a template parameter for your custom allocator

I'm not arguing that I can write a better version of vector for instance, just that I know the techniques for dynamically allocating arrays in C and thus if my dynamically created array breaks, I can fix it

What can C do that C++ can't?

There are many parts of the STL that do not rely on dynamic memory allocation. And container offer a template parameter for your custom allocator

allocator must trow an exception if allocation fails. in areas I've described you usualy can't trow an exception. returning nullptr is UB.